00:10
Ciaran
Hello and welcome to Customer Friendship Conversations, the show where we bring you the latest trends, tools, and insights into delivering customer experiences meant to be. I’m Cieran Nolan and I lead relationship management here at Dixa. Today’s customer experience hero was Harriet Treadwell. Harriet is Customer Love Director of Butternut Box, a company that prides themselves in putting the food back into dog food. Butternut Box create a personalized food plan specific to each dog and then deliver their product straight to your door. And here’s the best part. Their dog food is of such high quality that Harriet actually eats it herself. More on that later. Customer Love is a concept that pairs perfectly with customer friendship. Butternut Box are dealing directly with people’s pets, so they really understand the importance of putting the customer experience front and center. I can’t wait to hear more. Harriet. Thank you for joining the Customer Friendship Conversations podcast.
01:05
Ciaran
How are you?
01:05
Harriet
Yeah, great. Thank you. Cieran, how are you?
01:08
Ciaran
Good, thanks. Thank you for joining us, and we’re excited to learn more about the great work that Butternut Box is doing today. So thank you for taking the time. So, to kick off, why don’t you tell us a little bit about you and what you do at Butternut Box?
01:22
Harriet
Yeah, no worries. I’m Harriet. I’m the Customer Love Director at Butternut Box and I’ve been with the company since January 2019. So a little over four years now. When I joined, the Customer Love team was around ten people, and now we’re getting up to around 65 to 70 people across five different markets. So it’s been a really exciting growth journey over that period of time. So many different changes, new things that we’ve released, new team members that have joined. Yeah, it’s been an absolute whirlwind, but so enjoyable as well. And we’ve been partnered with Dixa for the past two and a half years or so. Can’t speak highly enough of the work that we do as a partnership together.
02:01
Ciaran
Oh, thank you. Well, we love working with you as well. And I always say there’s nothing better than visiting your office here in London. It’s always an uplifting experience, not just because of the dogs around the office, but also it’s very obvious that there at Butternut Box have created just an exceptional working culture, which is always super nice to see. So a little bit about Butternut box. Why don’t you give us the high level? What is Butternut Box for those of us who don’t know it?
02:26
Harriet
Yeah, absolutely. So Butternut Box is a direct consumer fresh dog food company. So what we do is collect the information about your dog. So let’s say you put into our website that you have a Jack Russell called Willow, and she weighs seven kilos, for example. We will calculate and work out exactly which food Willow needs, and we’ll send it to you perfectly portioned on delivery, and it will come to your door as regularly and as often as you need it. Our dog food is made completely fresh, so it’s all human grade ingredients. We use lots of different meats, veggies, vitamins and minerals. It’s a complete dog food and essentially it’s a new category in the market, so you already know probably dry food, so kibble, you also know like, wet food, so tinned food and maybe raw as well. But this is a completely new style of dog food, which is fresh.
03:15
Harriet
So we cook it like you would at home and send it to you frozen so it locks in all of the goodness. And it’s really great for dogs. We started about seven years ago with our co founders Kevin Dave, originally cooking for Dave’s dog, Rudy, who unfortunately couldn’t stop farting, and she had really bad stomach issues, so start cooking for her at home and realized the benefits. And obviously so many dogs thereafter have now benefited from our food as well. So it’s a great company to be a part of really putting the care back into dogs and knowing that dogs deserve better.
03:47
Ciaran
And what I love is your team actually taste test the food, right?
03:51
Harriet
Yeah, exactly. I’ve been at a few events before where I will introduce myself and then, hey, I’m Harriet and I eat dog food. But it’s totally true. So every recipe that we’ve ever made is totally fine for humans to eat. Like I said before, it’s all human grade ingredients, so we know exactly where everything has come from. My personal favorite is turkey recipe. Gobbleball, turkey is actually really nice, so what our food looks like is kind of like minced meat or different proteins. So we have a plant based recipe and a veggie recipe, and then there’s just lots of vegetables in there, so it kind of looks like a shepherd’s pie, for example, but without the potato on top. So it’s genuinely really nice.
04:31
Ciaran
I’m not lucky enough to have a dog just yet, but my friend Mave has a lovely little dog, and I have seen the dog really enjoy Butternut Box. It’s really cool. So thinking back to Harriet, when you joined the organization, what was your approach to customer friendships? You are recognized here in the UK, but also across Europe and gaining traction globally as an organization who has just an exceptional level of customer experience. So starting out, what is the approach or what was the approach to customer friendships that the business undertook?
05:04
Harriet
I mean, it started right from the get go, like right from the first customers that we ever fed, the dogs that we fed. We just really tried to get to know them personally. A lot of what we do is around personalization. Every dog is very different. You meet anyone in the park who has a dog and they’ll tell you all the different things that make their dog unique. And that’s something that we’ve always tried to harness right from the beginning is just really understanding your needs as a pet parent and understanding your dog’s needs. And that could be at any touch point throughout the journey. So if you’re just becoming a dog owner for the first time, you’re getting your first puppy, you have no idea where to start or you might even be a breeder. Everyone who has a dog is kind of at a different stage.
05:48
Harriet
So what we’ve always tried to do is understand what your needs are, how much support you require, and then match that with your journey in the account with talking to the Customer Love Team from signing up and then just showing a level of genuine care and human nature. If you’re calling us up to let us know that your dog has been really unwell and he’s been at the vet, for example, not just doing what you’ve asked us to do might be change your delivery day, but also just showing that we actually do care about your dog, too, and asking how he’s doing, if there’s anything we can support with. It’s something that’s ingrained in everything that we do. And we’ve always believed that’s the right thing to do and we’ll always follow through with that.
06:30
Ciaran
Yeah, I really love that. And it’s just so obvious when you see social posts, you even talk to friends, look at your trust pilot, that really does ring through. And even just from meeting your team, there’s a genuine passion love and care for the work they’re doing, which is just so lovely to see. And I guess off of that, what I’m really interested and I know our listeners will be interested in is your approach. It’s the customer love team.
06:56
Harriet
It’s something that Kevin Dave created because there’s many different names for kind of customer service teams. Now you’ve got customer care, customer support, customer delight, customer happiness. All is all based around one of the phrases that we have and one of our values, which is doing everything for the love of dogs. And most pet parents speak to anyone that has a dog, truly loves them. And that’s what we wanted to try and get across with this team, that it’s not just something that we don’t deal with customers, we don’t have agents on the team. We have team members who help people and show genuine care and love to you and your animals.
07:37
Ciaran
Yeah. And I really love that Harriet. And I think one of the key things you’re doing with the approach from Customer Love is also defining a standard in the industry of how customer experience should be done. And it’s something I know that at Dixa t we’ve learned a lot from you and your team’s approach, which we’re very grateful for. I guess a key thing in the kind of journey of your customers is also being there for your customers at those very difficult times that they may face in their journey of being a dog owner. So perhaps you could tell us more about what you do there.
08:09
Harriet
Yeah, absolutely. When the dogs have passed away or they’re going through some really difficult times with ongoing treatments for extended illnesses and for many people, especially during lockdown, it was really difficult for them. Their dogs were their best friends, the people that they lived with and sometimes it can really hit people very hard and there’s kind of this stigma around when you lose your dog that you shouldn’t be that upset because it’s not a human, but actually they mean so much to so many people. So there’s many things that we will do in that situation from sending out some flowers, condolences or planting a tree in somebody’s name or we have a team of in house vet nurses as well, so you can speak to one of our vet nurses who will be trained in bereavement for us. Again, we’re not doing something because we’re hoping that you purchase more from us or you recommend us to friends or anything like that.
09:23
Harriet
It’s because you’ve been there for us and supported us by being a customer of USNA. It’s only fair and it’s only right that we’re there for you and we support you when you need us most. And I think that really touches on we’re talking about customer friendship here, but if you take the word customer away, what do you look for from a friendship? And that is somebody that is going to be there for you when you need them, that shows you compassion and kindness, somebody that understands you and knows what’s going on in your life. And they’re all the things that we try and harness when our customers need us the most. And it’s something that we’re passionate about doing and for our team as well, internally, it’s a nice thing to be able to do something for somebody. You always get that good feeling when you help somebody else out in need.
10:12
Harriet
And our team do have difficult conversations with people who are going through a really tough time. So for them to be able to support our customer and be able to do something nice is not only reassuring for the customer, but it’s also really reassuring our team. And our team’s happiness is just as important to us. So we have a really structured onboarding and learning and development plan and so we have lots of different courses and materials. We actually as a whole company offer a learning and development budget for every employee for the year. So it’s quite a significant fund that the team can use for whatever they would like to be spending that on to help their own career development. But within that we also have a hub of resources and our veterinary nurses are absolutely excellent and they run weekly training with our team and that could be around so many different things, whether that’s bereavement or cancer treatment, weight loss, whatever that might be.
11:10
Harriet
It’s really important to us that we give our team the skills and tools that they will need to have when dealing with those conversations. Because nobody wants to be on the other end of the phone when somebody is going through that kind of difficult time. Unless you feel confident that you can actually positively influence that and you have the right to be able to help them. And not only that, but when they get off a phone call with a customer that’s been very emotional, that can have a really big impact on somebody who’s potentially just gone through the same thing or had something relatable.
11:49
Ciaran
And you as an organization are obviously very advanced in this now you’ve pretty much mastered the art of doing this. What was the customer experience like at the start of the journey? So I know at the start it was one dog. You’re now at a huge amount of subscribers as well as operating cross markets. I know you’re both in the Netherlands, Ireland, home for me and the UK. So what was the customer experience like at the start of that journey?
12:16
Harriet
This is a really interesting point because the customer experience was very similar. We were doing all of those things that you would expect from a very small company. So things like handwritten notes, get well soon card, congratulations on your new home, all of those things. And I remember when I first joined and we’re still a very small team and a lot of people in this industry and in customer service generally said to me, you’ll never make that scale. It’s fine to do those things when you’re small, but you’re never going to be able to continue that when you’re a big company. And I’ve kind of made it my mission that we will still do those things. It doesn’t matter how big we are. And it all comes down to whether it’s important to you. If it’s important to you and it’s important to your business, you will make room for it and you will make sure that you have the right resources, the right automation, the right tech support to be able to continue to do those things because they actually underpin the values of your business.
13:16
Harriet
If we stopped doing a lot of the things that we’re doing because we thought we could save some money, it wouldn’t scale, it’s too time consuming, we would be losing the fundamentals of why Butternut Box is successful and why Butternut Box exists and why so many people love using us or love working with us. So it’s important to just make the time and make space to continue to do those things. And when you’re thinking about your next market, your next 50 people on the team, the next system that you’re going to use, the next CRM, you need to weigh up what your priorities are and if they are doing those small touch points, the delight moments, the being there for your customers. You have to make sure that you’re setting yourself up correctly to be able to scale those things. If you’re doing at the start and you want to continue it, then you make room for it.
14:07
Harriet
But ultimately, is the return on investment worth it for you and your business?
14:12
Ciaran
And you’ve obviously in bottom of boxes, obviously realize that this will help you have a competitive edge in the market. I know a lot of our listeners here today will be thinking about, oh, I need to get more time with tech. I really wish I could get into the HR team to help with culture. I wish I could get a different delivery driver or delivery driver company. For you, obviously to achieve what you’re looking to achieve, you must have strong relationships with your cross functional partners. Is that fair to say?
14:39
Harriet
Yeah, absolutely. It’s imperative to. They’re not actually speaking to people, they’re not actually interacting or engaging, except for maybe doing some surveys or some user testing. And I think the way that we have built on this is something that we’ve developed over the last couple of years. But it all came from something called Stage Five Thinking, which was a Ted Talk, I think by Dave Logan around tribal leadership. And it was essentially the group culture is set by a few individuals who have the loudest voices. So if you have people who don’t really want to improve things, they’re quite negative about things. That will generally be the group feeling because they’re the loudest voices. And people that are in Stage Five thinking, which is very collaborative, very helpful, is using a really good example is with a customer service team, could be your marketing department decide they want to send out 100,000 emails to Paused or previous customers saying, tell us what you think about our products or tell us why you left.
15:56
Ciaran
And they want which loads of marketing teams do.
16:00
Harriet
Yeah. The first response, your gut feeling is customer service is like, oh God, don’t do that, because it’s going to create so many conversations for us. The customer is going to get in touch, we’re not going to be able to handle it. And that type of conversation and that type of narrative that you’re then having with your marketing team is very negative. It’s very I’m going to put blockers up. And so what happens is your marketing team stop asking you and they stop telling you that they’re going to do things and they just start doing them because you block them. And so what we’ve always then tried to do is turn that around a little bit in terms of, okay, how can we help, how can we support this better? Actually, you’ll get a better response rate if you send it on a Sunday morning versus a Wednesday evening.
16:44
Harriet
Maybe we could help set up the type, form or website where you can get the responses back in. We’re happy to then code it to sentiment, basically being like, how can we be more helpful to you and your team? What can you take from us that’s actually going to help improve your journey and therefore it improves our relationship with that team and they’re more likely to come and ask you for information, for support. I think it’s that top layer that really needs to be committed to understanding and listening to that customer journey, first of all. And you need to try and push that as a priority onto other teams if they’re not listening.
17:28
Ciaran
No, really. And even for me, having visited your offices, I sat one day and I actually enjoy doing this in customer offices from time to time, where I just sit and work on a sofa for an hour between meetings. And just even the space, you couldn’t tell which team was which. Everybody was working together, collaborating. Your office lends itself very well to that. But that obviously is something that is thoughtfully thought out as well. And a lot of work has gone to get the organization to that space of where me, as an outsider, I was like, this is just one big team dedicated to making the lives of dogs better, which is super inspiring and I think a lot of organizations could learn from that approach, which is great to see. So Harriet, Butternut Box at its core is a technology organization as well. And you have multiple systems, CRMs marketing platforms, data lookup tools and whatnot.
18:23
Ciaran
How did you come about partnering with Dixa to power your customer friendships?
18:27
Harriet
Yeah, so it’s about three years ago now. We were previously using a very well known big ticketing platform and it just wasn’t really sparking joy anymore for our team, for our customers. It was getting in the way of us being able to basically enjoy work a lot of the time because it was so manual to make changes. And not only that, but the account management that we had was pretty much nonexistent. If we needed support with anything or there was something that there was a bug or something that was going wrong, it was basically begging somebody to help us or help look into something. And we just didn’t feel like this platform was set up to help us succeed. And I have a personal phrase which is always to never let perfect get in the way of better. And what I mean by that is just because there’s probably not going to be the absolute perfect platform out there doesn’t mean that there’s not going to be a better one.
19:29
Harriet
And so we kind of set out on this journey to see what else is out there. The old one was working fine, it wasn’t the biggest. We needed desperately to find something new, but we knew that there were probably better applications out there. So went out and had a look in the market. We did some research in terms of new and up and coming kind of businesses that matched a bit better to our values and what were trying to do. And then we came across Dixa. And at the time we’d spoken to another company that had just started using Dixa and they were really happy with it. One of the main features that we really loved was being able to suggest product improvements and that there was board and you could go and vote in terms of other people’s product suggestions. And not only that, but just the people that we spoke to at Dixa right at the beginning, even on the kind of initial investigation calls, really tried to understand what we needed from our platform.
20:24
Harriet
Whereas a lot of the other conversations we had were people that were very like, here’s all the things that we do and you can use our product if you want. And it didn’t feel very collaborative, it didn’t feel like they really understood or listened to what Dixa did. And we very quickly realized that Dixa was probably going to do the product for us. In the space of about two months, we decided to sign on from like first investigations to then signing was about two months. And then after that point we agreed a date that we would switch platforms. Two weeks before that we had one person on our team who was dedicated to setting up some queues channels, routing the macros. And I remember actually, I video recorded the switch from our old hub center to the new hub center and it took 37 seconds to transfer all of the data into the new hub center in exactly the same format, the exact same breadcrumbs.
21:22
Harriet
And I just couldn’t believe that was all it took. It was amazing and which was completely seamless. Dixa came and trained our team and it’s just been really the same ever since in terms of support, guidance, and how much it’s like having a little cheerleader in the background actually. It’s like having somebody else who really wants to see you succeed and somebody there for you that’s like cheering on from the sidelines when you achieve different things throughout your journey.
21:54
Ciaran
Yeah, it’s really lovely to hear and I think we’re very glad you found us and we love working with you and working with the team there. It’s definitely a very collaborative effort and yeah, we love to celebrate your wins as well, which is amazing. So when we think of the industry you’re working within, so it’s pet food industry, what would be the specific things you need to factor in as you’re creating a customer experience team for the pet food industry? And I’m imagining customer lodging retention is something that you’re really big and hard on, is that fair to say?
22:30
Harriet
Yeah, definitely. I mean, retention is the heart of our business as a subscription model. If our customers aren’t staying with us, then we’re not going to be very successful. We need to make sure that we’re delivering value and enough value to our customers that they see that it’s benefiting themselves and their dog in their everyday life and that they want to continue ordering from Buttenut Box. And that’s massive for us. I mean, we face different kinds of challenges in terms of the conversations that we have and the reasons why people get in touch. So there’s many companies that have high where is my order volume? We don’t necessarily have a lot of that because your Butternut Box turns up on the same day every fortnight or every month and you can track it through your app and that kind of stuff. So we don’t have those kind of high volumes of inbound conversations that many other companies usually solve with a chat bot or something like that.
23:28
Harriet
We have a lot of conversations that are very specific and personal to each dog. And when you’re feeding your dog, it’s very different to feeding yourself because you already know what you do and don’t like, what things you should and shouldn’t eat, how much you should be eating, what foods go together, that kind of stuff. But when it comes to your dog, you don’t necessarily know that. So you need more guidance or more support for us to tell you how to feed your dog, how much to feed your dog, when you should feed your dog, all of those different kinds of things. So we have to make continuous improvements inside your account on the app in terms of our knowledge base. And a lot of that comes from us sharing that voice to the customer across the whole business. And the good thing about Dixa in that scenario is that we use a lot of things like tags, conversation, counters.
24:25
Harriet
The data that we get from Dixa is absolutely fantastic and we can overlay that with all of our different customer data as well. So we can look at how many customers who’ve just received their first box, who have a puppy that they’ve listed as a fussy eater, what kind of queries they’re going to get in touch about, and how long after they’ve signed up can we expect to hear from them. And using all of that kind of information, you can then go right to the heart of that problem and solve it for the customer, whether that’s an account through email journeys and there’s so many of them, there’s so many different things that you can look at. But Dixa helps us get to the ones that are the highest priority, the biggest cause of people getting in touch. And we’re then able to make changes where our team are then involved because they’re the ones that have put the forward through voice to customer, through tagging.
25:21
Harriet
And then everybody feels like they’ve had a real involvement in improving the business, driving us forward and ultimately making that customer experience better.
25:31
Ciaran
An amazing way to boost employee engagement, morale as well, to be able to physically see what you’re saying to the organization ring through. So definitely I’d imagine there’s challenges in that as well because it sounds like it’s very bespoke and it kind of leads me on to my next point. I’m really interested to know, like, what’s next, for customer experience of Butternut Box?
26:12
Harriet
And it’s not about kind of like removing the human element of it, we want to be able to work alongside it and customers will very quickly, I think, start bossing and recognizing when AI is used. It’s obviously very good at what it does, but there are going to be things where it doesn’t pick up on and we’re going to still need our team to step in and manage that kind of conversation. And also just being able to make sure that we’re still learning from our customers. And if we’re implementing something that takes away any of that learning or insight or rich data that we get, genuinely just being able to have fun with our customers, we don’t want to lose that. And so I think that the future for us is going to be finding the balance of making sure that we’re using something that makes us more efficient, better at what we do, faster at what we do, but also maintains that what we like to call our opponents to how we speak to people and also the human touch and insights that we get from interacting with our customers.
27:24
Harriet
It’s important that doesn’t ever leave us.
27:29
Ciaran
I love the tone of bark. It’s so fitting and gives me a good laugh every time. Really what you’re looking at is maintaining that amazing level of service but perhaps using some technology and automations that are really coming to the fore in the market right now. And I know our team are working on significantly to really balance that up.
27:49
Harriet
Yeah, and I think I’ve been speaking to quite a few of my peers. It’s something that can potentially be seen as scary for people or causing some anxiety, I guess, take over people’s jobs, just basically make what we do entirely redundant and that’s just not. The case. I think what it means is that she will all just upskill and make ourselves better at what we do and whether that’s us actually spending more time on more value add things that we can do for our customers. If it’s able to help those that are just very simple queries who just need to find the answer very quickly, and are those customers that aren’t asked about having a long conversation with you, then great. And we can be there more for those customers that do need that level of conversation, that level of help, and that next level of friendship as well, which I don’t think something like Chat GPT is going to be able to offer.
28:48
Harriet
I wouldn’t best friends with a robot.
28:52
Ciaran
Okay, so we’re going to move on to our Quick Fire round now. So, I have three questions for you, Harriet, so we’ll answer them as snappily as possible. So, first one, what do you know now that you wish you’d known at the start of your customer experience journey?
29:08
Harriet
Something that I really lean on now is taking the time to understand all of my team’s individuality and all of their personality and making sure that I’m never asking somebody to do something that isn’t natural to them, isn’t something that they would really want to be able to do. And making space for those personalities on the team, letting each other be their whole selves at work, thrive in that and celebrating each person’s individual natural skills and natural leaning to areas that they find very interesting.
29:42
Ciaran
Love it. And I can always tell your team love working with you. So that’s amazing.
29:51
Harriet
Probably three things. So the first one that we’re obviously extremely proud of is our review rating. So we hold a 4.9 star review rating on this trust pilot in Google, so that’s obviously a big telltale sign our customer satisfaction scores. So we rate around 4.9 out of five, which again, we’re really proud of. And ultimately, I think, team loyalty, team retention, how our team are engaged at work, how happy they are they staying, are they developing, are they moving into different roles, being promoted, that kind of stuff? Are we developing our team? And I think that’s a big measure of the friendships that we have with our customers. No team member is going to want to stay on a team that doesn’t care about their customers. One of the things that we always ask, and I’m sure many people also ask, is, why do you want to work in customer service?
30:42
Harriet
And I guarantee you, every time it’s because they say they enjoy helping people. And we need to make sure that we’re giving our team the space and the tools to be able to go and do what they said they want to do, which is to help people, which is why we hired them in the first place.
30:58
Ciaran
Yeah, I love it. And I love in your last two answers and throughout the episode, team just forms such an important part of what you’re doing, your mantra, and that’s really inspiring to see, then the final one. Given that you’re so good at staying close to your customers, being with them in moments that matter and nurturing them and becoming their friends over the long term, what would be your number one tip to companies and organizations to get to as good as you are?
31:24
Harriet
I would say don’t do something just for the sake of it. Don’t give out just like a free gift or money back voucher or something just for the sake of it, because you think that will help try and understand what your customers want from you. That might be nothing at all, that might be just quick, cleanness efficiency and that they don’t ever need to beat you in. Great.
31:46
Ciaran
I love that. And I always think of a personal example. I have a flower subscription delivery service from a big service here in the UK and got a call to say, hey, Cieran, we’ve noticed you haven’t had a delivery in three weeks, four weeks. I can’t remember what it was. And I was like, oh, actually, thanks for the call. I’m moving house, so I’m staying at a friend’s house, so I don’t actually need them. And I was like, oh, I’ll restart my subscription, actually next week because I’m moving to a new house with love, a nice set of flowers for when visitors come and whatnot. And they were like, oh, your next box is on us. I wasn’t expecting it. Of course I wanted it, but it wasn’t an expectation from me to get that. And I’m sure they don’t do that with every customer, but it was just such a lovely thought that made my day and I talk about it a lot now.
32:31
Ciaran
I often reference it, so it’s really lovely. So you’re right. Don’t just do it because you can do it.
32:37
Harriet
Yeah, it’s how you made them feel. And that free flowers, your new home, probably made you feel very special to them, that really wanted you to say that they valued you, that they understood what you were about and that’s going to stay with you forever and you would. Then even if your next delivery goes wrong, they mess up, they take a double payment, whatever, you’re going to be like, no worries. Because you know that they already do nice things for you and that they already understand you as a customer, as a human.
33:14
Ciaran
Listen, Harriet, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us today. I’ve been looking forward to this for weeks now since we scheduled it. Really, really appreciate your time, really admire what you and the team are doing at Butternut Box. And ultimately just want to say thank you for being a great friend to us, a great friend to me, and a great partner and customer of Dixa. It really is a pleasure working with you, helping you all achieve your vision and mission there and we appreciate that a lot.
33:43
Harriet
Thanks, Ciaran. Yeah, it’s been great to chat about it as well with you guys. And as ever, I’m always appreciative that Dixa exists and helps us to better at what we do.
33:52
Ciaran
Thanks for listening today’s episode of Customer Friendship Conversations. If you’ve enjoyed the show, then make sure you’re following us on your podcast platform of choice. It means that you’ll get notified each time we release a new episode so you won’t miss out on any of the other amazing customer friendship heroes we’ll be showcasing in the coming months. Of course, a rating or review is a huge help to the show, so we always massively appreciate those as well. And if you’re interested in learning more about Customer Friendship, then head to Dixa.com to discover everything you want to know about customer experiences as it’s meant to be. Once again, I’m Cieran Nolan. This was Customer Friendship Conversations. And another gigantic thank you to Harriet Treadwell Butternut Box for sharing her amazing insights with us. Remember, never let perfect get in the way of better. Until next time.